Interview with Col Sunith Cardozo (Retd,)
By John Aguiar
Today we have with us Col Sunith Cardozo (Retd,) who is son of legendary veteran Maj General Iam Cardozo.Colonel Sunith Cardozo joined the same
Gorkha of his father regiment many years later.
How did you join your father's regiment?
Col. SC: I could have taken an open category where you could go to any army, you could go to armoured, arty, you could go to anything. But I chose to join my father's battalion. It's also a matter of honour. You see, when you join your own father's regiment. In my battalion, at that time, there were five officers who were second generation. At one point of time, they were uncle. Today, they are sirs. It's a different thing and you are also welcomed into that thing. There are third generation, fourth generation people also serving in the army today. It's a matter of pride to join your father's regiment.
And where were you posted after your basic training?
Col. SC: Immediately on being commissioned, I was posted to the battalion which was presently, or rather at that point of time, was posted in Sri Lanka. My commanding officer asked for me to come to Sri Lanka post-haste. I remember I reached Madras. From there, I had to catch a flight, early morning flight. The courier that takes your supplies to Sri Lanka. I was put on that flight. I reached the airport. I remember as soon as I got down from the aircraft, there was firing just outside. I was just rushed and whisked away and put into a small 4x4 room where another officer was already in and the door was shut. We were there for four hours. Somewhere in between, one chap came to us, opened a can of mango juice, mangoes with juice inside that. And he just gave it to us and pushed away. After four hours, we were opened up when things had cooled down. That was my first day, my first experience. And I reached my battalion late at night that day.
You were inducted into Sri Lanka as part of IPKF. Please tell us about this experience ?
Col. SC: Actually, when you join the army as an officer, you're not given commando troops straight away. You put on your rank, but then you're put under surveillance. You've got people who are experienced. I was put into a company with a very senior officer. And I had men, a sergeant who was put in charge of me. I was made to learn the details of whatever your men are doing. Whatever men do, you do with them. If you know what your men do, then only you can learn to understand, live with them, understand them. For the first three months, I was under a sergeant and a JCO. They were looking after me. They taught me everything. And my commanding officer straight away told me, first thing, no heroics. Whatever they do or they tell you to do, you will do just that. And that's how I got. So I was there when the Indian army was actually pulling out from there. And it was an experience itself because I had to do a lot of patrolling, moving with troops, living with them, guard duty at night. I was living with them, doing what they did. I was not even allowed to enter the officer's mess. And that's how it was. The battalion got de-inducted from there. We had a couple of encounters, but that was what it was. We were in North, Jaffna, Palali and we moved out from there within three months.
IPKF, Jaffna? Yes, we were in North, Jaffna, Palali.
Colonel, you have served six tenures in Jammu and Kashmir. How was your experience there?
Col. SC:Jammu and Kashmir is a fabulous experience. My time when I was there, things were heating up. It was quite warm. The militancy had already peaked. So things were at its peak. Everything we did was under a lot of pressure. I served in Kupwara, one of the hottest areas near that time. After which I finished my tenure from there, I got posted to a peace tenure. For a peace tenure, I got posted to Dallouzi. But at that point of time, Poonch and Rajouri got hot. The entire division moved there. So I moved from Kashmir, went out for three months, and I was back again in Kashmir for another two and a half years. So I had virtually five years to go in Kashmir, Poonch and Rajouri. There again, it was when the Pakistanis realized that Kashmir was being lookedafter very well, they tried to get into Rajouri, Poonch, because they thought that our focus wasn't there. So that area heated up. So we had a five year tenure there. I got out from there, went for a peace tenure as a GTO to Allahabad. I finished, I barely finished that tenure when I got a call from the unit. We are going to the glacier. Would you like to volunteer to come back? I immediately volunteered. I went back and joined the unit. Did a tenure with them in Siyachin. Came out from there. We went to Firozpur for a short tenure. From there we went on a UN mission to Sudan. While I was in Sudan itself, I cleared my board and went to command another battalion, which was in Ranikhet. From there again we went to Rajouri Punch. It was a continuous tenure, one after the other into the valley. But it was good. It was an experience.
How was your experience in Sudan?
Col. SC: My experience in Sudan was fantastic. It was an eye opener. The Indian Army is very, very well regarded. We were serving with troops from other armies and you could see the difference. They were Pakistanis, Chinese, they were Russians, Sri Lankans, Bangladeshis and of course our troops were there. Whatever happened, the UN had a lot of trust in the Indian Army because of our discipline and the way our troops function. We also had a force commander who was Indian. So you had a very, very strong reputation to look after.
I always wanted to ask this question. In the Army, Gurkhas and Garhwal Rifle and all these regiments, they are wearing black badges. We have something called the Rifle Regiments. The Rifle Regiments, no brass. We have only black stars. Everything is without polish. So those Rifle Regiments march at a faster pace than the others. They do 140 kadam per minute. Others are 120. A Rifle Regiment marches at 140 paces per minute. So that's why we are called Rifle Regiments. That's the only difference. But otherwise we function, everything is the same.
Colonel, you have served in the highest battlefield in the world, Siachen Glacier, during Operation Parakram? .
Col. SC: Yes, but I was inducted into the glacier as a company commander. A company commander has to take up his entire company to the post on top. You have a base post where the company commander and the medical officers...
Captain at that time or Major?
Col. SC: I was a Major at that time. And a company commander along with his administrative staff stay at the base. And you have satellite posts around you. A number of satellite posts depending on the space, the area that is under you. These are under command of that company commander. You've got to ensure that your troops are safe, secure and their administrative requirements are looked after.
You see, there we have the challenge of weather. Terrain, it's a very harsh terrain, weather. Temperatures go to minus 60 at night. And during the day, it goes to minus 30, minus 20. For example, if you want to move at night, our movement only is at night, not during the day, because of the fear of the chance of avalanches taking place. Then crevices open up during the day. You've got to be very careful on that. It's all the responsibility of the company commander there. You move at night, you move with a lot of clothing. You walk, you sweat inside. At a point of time, if you stop to take a break, the sweat inside freezes. So, you've got no choice. You've got to continue moving. It's a very, very thing. And then you have major problems like health, HARPO, high altitude cerebral edema, high altitude pulmonary edema. Casualty evacuations are a problem. At times, you have whiteouts for three days, four days, five days. Helicopters cannot come to pick up your casualties. You've got to keep people in the HARPO chambers, keep pumping them all night.I've stayed up three nights to pump air into the HARPO chamber to make sure that a boy stays alive and then he's evacuated once the weather goes and that too under this you have the Pakistanis also firing at you. So you've got all this and plus you've got to retaliate also. Even memory loss is a problem. What happens is you're right memory loss also takes place because your body is functioning at an altitude of 19,000 feet, 20,000 feet. Oxygen is 60% of what you have at sea level. The functioning of the body is not normal. You have to acclimatize to it. Some people acclimatize very fast. Some people have a problem. You've got to motivate your men. You've got to stand with them. You've got to be with them. Ensure that they are physically fit. They're eating at times. At times they don't want to eat. Their muscle waste takes place. People don't want to do things but you've got to make sure that everyone, every man jack of yours is fighting fit and mentally also they are in absolute tip top shape. You've got to be with your men 24-7. That is command. Command leadership. That is what it's all about. So it was testing, always testing us and that's how it was.
You have commanded 2nd and 5th Gurkha Regiment on the line of control. How was it?
You have commanded 2nd 5th Gurkha Regiment on the line of control. How was it?
Command of a unit on the line of control is always a privilege. It's stressful but that's where the men watch you. They've seen you in peace station. They've seen you grow in the unit. When you go, you take them into battle. They look up at you for direction. And commanding your troops on the line of control is always a privilege. We have the people across watching you. Casualties taking place. Pulling them out from there. Ensuring that you retaliate also as per the norms that are given. No violating the rules that are there. Flag meetings that are held. Whenever there's a violation take place, you go put your point across. They also come and put their point across. Administrative needs of the men. Making sure that they are taken care of. It's quite a challenge itself. But a very interesting life there. It can only be given to you in the Indian Army.
Colonel, you have been awarded Chief of Army Staff Commendation in 2014 and GOC NC Northern Command Commendation in 2000. Could you please tell us about this?
Col.SC:The awards that you just mentioned are awards that I received while I was on staff. While I was a G3 or Grade 3 officer in the Brigade Headquarters. I was in charge, I was a GSO 3 Intelligence. I was responsible for collecting intelligence about militants, movement of theirs, where are they likely to come, what are the places that they regularly visit. And based on all my inputs and the work that I did, I got a number of successful operations that were conducted. Due to which I was given this thing. And the second thing that I got from the Chief Army Staff again was for staff work. It is recognized, your work in the office is recognized because of which I was given the second thing, the Chief Army Staff Commendation Card.
You have served in Services Selection Board as a Group Testing Officer from 2000 to 2002. What is the role of Group Testing Officer in SSB? What is it about?
Col.SC: See, I'll just brief you about in the Services Selection Board you have a 5 day stay in which you undergo testing with the Group Testing Officer, an Interviewing Officer and a Psychologist. They are assessing you. The Group Testing Officer assesses a candidate in a group. Group Dynamics is what is checked with him. An Interviewing Officer is checking a person one to one, face to face. And a Psychologist is checking your inner self. These three assessors do not meet and one does not know which candidate is going to which assessor in which they are distributed in batches. Even the Group Testing Officer when he goes in the morning to the ground, he doesn't know which batch, which group of candidates he is getting. It's a pick of the lot there and you go, the Group Testing Officer gets his group. The Psychologist also picks up his chit and he gets one batch and the interviewing. officer also does that. We don't know who's the interviewing officer, psychologist or the GTO.
The GTO, as I mentioned, checks you in a group.
How a candidate adjusts within a group under various situations.
Col SC:These tasks that are given by the group testing officer are time tested and they make you do things in a calibrated manner. Where you also have group dynamics taking place and interactions within the group are being watched. The GTO assesses each candidate. He's a very busy man. It's very trying, very testing. Within those few minutes that he has, he's able to assess each candidate, what they do, how they respond.
A group discussion is a very fast thing. He'll tell you who said what to whom, when, what was the reaction, why did he say that, everything. And then subsequently he assesses it. Same way you have the group obstacle race and the various things. The group dynamics are progressively taking place. While all this is on, the group testing officer is assessing this. He comes to his conclusion at the end.
The psychologist, meanwhile, will be assessing the papers that have been submitted. And the interviewing officer would have taken his interview and would also come to his conclusion. We don't meet. Then we have the conference. At the conference, the marks of each candidate is given out by the various assessors.
I think the PIQ form is also important.
Col. SC:Absolutely. Because the questions are asked from PIQ. Your PIQ form gives you inputs about what the candidate is all about. Your interests, your hobbies, what all you do, your education, your background, everything is given in that. The interviewing officer will interview based on that. He will also ask you things that are happening. You've got to show some interest in world affairs. If you say I'm a good footballer or I read, what do you read? Why do you find it so interesting? What have you found interesting about this person or what he's written about? He'll ask you about that. Whatever you've given, you've got to be clear about that. If you try and play football with him, he'll bring you back, he'll take you out and you won't know what happened.
Thank you so much, Colonel. A lot of information you have shared with us. Thank you so much.
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